"A no-brainer": Reactions to 23 minute Park Royal-Metrotown ride on North Shore SkyTrain line
Once again, SkyTrain appears to be the preferred technology for a future rapid transit project in Metro Vancouver, specifically the proposed North Shore rapid transit line linking Park Royal in West Vancouver with Brentwood Town Centre and Metrotown in Burnaby.
Reactions poured in siding with expanding Metro Vancouver’s existing fully grade-separated driverless metro network, following Daily Hive Urbanized’s report earlier this week on the findings of a new highly preliminary study — commissioned by the District of North Vancouver — that compared the technologies of Bus Rapid Transit (BRT), street-level Light Rail Transit (LRT), and SkyTrain.
Although no decision has been made due to the further analysis needed, TransLink and its Mayors’ Council are looking to implement a BRT line at least over the short term, with the permanent solution over the longer term to be decided at a later date. And within the near term, TransLink is planning to extend the existing R2 RapidBus across Burrard Inlet from its current eastern terminus of Phibbs Exchange to reach Brentwood and Metrotown.
- You might also like:
- North Shore-Metrotown SkyTrain would see 120,000 riders daily: study
- TransLink selects three rapid transit routes for planning, including two BRT services
- TransLink's first three Bus Rapid Transit routes could cost over $1 billion
- Opinion: North Shore rapid transit is a must for TransLink, and can't be overlooked
- City of Burnaby wants TransLink's new Bus Rapid Transit route between North Shore and Metrotown prioritized
- Squamish First Nation to develop 350 acres of its lands, including North Shore waterfront reserves
- BC government outlines new SkyTrain to North Shore from Vancouver (MAPS)
The high-level analysis did not provide a cost estimate nor did it suggest the SkyTrain line’s alignment — where it could be elevated, tunnelled, and/or possibly at-grade.
But it did identify some possible options to build a new multi-modal replacement of the aging and structurally deficient Ironworkers Memorial Bridge, which could accommodate rapid transit. As well, for the BRT and LRT options, it places the route at street level along Marine Drive, 3rd Street, and Main Street on the North Shore, and Hastings Street and Willingdon Avenue in Vancouver/Burnaby.
TransLink previously indicated BRT could cost roughly $300 million. There is no cost estimate for SkyTrain, but it can be assumed to be billions of dollars in the range of making it one of the region’s most expensive transportation infrastructure projects.
Each of the three technology options had a route length of about 19.5 km and 10 station locations placed in the same general vicinity, providing key connections to Park Royal, Lonsdale Quay, Phibbs Exchange, Hastings Park/PNE, Brentwood Town Centre Station (Millennium Line), BCIT Burnaby campus, and Metrotown Station (Expo Line).
According to the analysis, out of the three options, SkyTrain would have the most competitive end-to-end travel time (23 minutes) and average operating speed (50 km/hr), and greatest long-term capacity (12,000 passengers per hour per direction). This is under half the travel time and at least twice the average operating speed of BRT or LRT.
As well, SkyTrain would also attract an average of 120,000 daily boardings by 2050 — three times the ridership of BRT, 20% more than LRT, and equivalent to the Canada Line’s average daily ridership in 2023. Ridership would be particular strong for the segment between Brentwood, BCIT, and Metrotown.
Here is a summary comparing the key performance statistics of the BRT, LRT, and SkyTrain options:
- Bus Rapid Transit (BRT):
- Average daily ridership: 41,000 boardings per day
- End-to-end travel time: 58 minutes
- Average operating speed: 20 km/hr
- Maximum capacity: 1,300 passengers per hour per direction
- New job access from North Shore: 20,000
- Light Rail Transit (LRT):
- Average daily ridership: 100,000 boardings per day
- End-to-end travel time: 47 minutes
- Average operating speed: 25 km/hr
- Maximum capacity: 4,500 passengers per hour per direction
- New job access from North Shore: 98,000
- SkyTrain:
- Average daily ridership: 120,000 boardings per day
- End-to-end travel time: 23 minutes
- Average operating speed: 50 km/hr
- Maximum capacity: 12,000 passengers per hour per direction
- New job access from North Shore: 180,000
Reece Martin, the transit planning consultant behind the popular RMTransit channel on YouTube, suggests the future rapid transit project should be planned as SkyTrain.
“SkyTrain pretty clearly the winner, even when it seems we are likely once again under-predicting its potential ridership. Light rail would be a mistake for a regional route like this,” wrote Martin in a post on X.
Political commentator Jake Landau says it would be “absurd” if this became a LRT project.
Some called it a “game-changer” for regional transportation, and an alternative to the congested road bridges across Burrard Inlet.
SkyTrain pretty clearly the winner, even when it seems we are likely once again underpredicting its potential ridership. Light rail would be a mistake for a regional route like this. https://t.co/JD7WzZqIC9
— Reece 🚇 (@RM_Transit) May 28, 2024
The fact that it’s even a debate considering the boardings and travel time is absurd here, and I assume the operating costs for a tram would be higher since it would need a human operator unlike the GoA4 SkyTrain. Just absurd planning if they go with the tram.
— Jake Landau (He/Him) 🇵🇸🇺🇦 (@JakeLandauTO) May 28, 2024
This needs to get moving immediately. There’s little to no potential for road growth based on the geography of the area. Skytrain is the only option to allow for growth and congestion relief on the north shore.
— Kyle D’Aoust (@KyleDaoust_) May 28, 2024
Imagine how bridge traffic would change. https://t.co/o8W6gqlJFc
— Jody Vance (@jodyvance) May 28, 2024
23 minutes from Park Royal to Metrotown would be a complete game-changer for regional transit https://t.co/vpCy7kHCPt
— ellen teapot 🇨🇦🇺🇸🏳️⚧️ (@asmallteapot) May 28, 2024
Surrey-Langley SkyTrain advocate Daryl Dela Cruz suggests the ridership estimate could be on the low end.
Brendan Dawe, an urban planning and real estate consultant with Urbanics Consultants, said, “It will be hilarious if we end up spending years playing this game again.” This is a reference to Metro Vancouver’s prior history of having prolonged debates over technologies — SkyTrain vs. street-level LRT vs. BRT — for previous projects, only to eventually ultimately land on proceeding with SkyTrain each and every time following analyses that favour SkyTrain. This includes the Millennium Line’s Evergreen, Broadway, and UBC extensions, and the Expo Line’s Surrey-Langley Extension.
“I would really love to see LRT in short streetcar lines that connect dense urban spaces like Central Vancouver, but SkyTrain is far more useful for longer, cross-region journeys like Metrotown to Lonsdale. The usefulness of the line and the locations it connects necessitates SkyTrain,” reads a comment on Daily Hive Urbanized’s article.
it will be hilarious if we end up spending years playing this game again
— Brendan Dawe (@BrendanDawe) May 28, 2024
I was thinking the exact same thing, no way that a train twice as fast gets only +20% ridership
— [email protected] 🏴🚩🏳️⚧️ (@Book_1312) May 28, 2024
It’s wild how much more efficient at moving people the sky train is compared to LRT. https://t.co/FoC4Goxumj
— Matt Slowikowski (@Timeforteatwo) May 28, 2024
But there were also suggestions that there could be more stations to serve areas of interest, such as a station in the Burnaby Heights area on Hastings Street near the northern end of Willingdon Avenue — instead of a long station-less stretch between Hastings Park/PNEE and Brentwood Town Centre Station. As well, some suggested the station serving Lower Lonsdale should be closer to Lonsdale Quay to enable better connections to the SeaBus terminal and bus exchange.
“SkyTrain seems like a no-brainer, given the success the region has already had with the technology. But I do think it would need at least another couple of stations in Burnaby — one near Hastings and Willingdon, and another just north of Kingsway on Willingdon,” reads another comment on Daily Hive Urbanized’s article.
Other suggestions centred on integrating the project with a future rapid transit aline along Hastings Street between downtown Vancouver to at least the Hastings Park/PNE Station of the North Shore SkyTrain line.
no hastings/willingdon station?? 🤔
— michelle (@chellers95) May 29, 2024
This was needed long ago.
Side note, other than the Lonsdale issue (station at Victoria Park makes sense given its midway between Central Lonsdale and Lower Lonsdale neighbourhoods, but it’d be disconnected from Lonsdale Quay), there’s a missing station in Burnaby Heights. pic.twitter.com/xCkQ6OrsMS
— ElCanaco.Bsky.Social (@ElCanaco) May 28, 2024
No Hastings/willingdon, or Lonsdale Quay stations seem like big omissions
Lonsdale also has the potential for S2S rail transfers. The S2S highway isn’t going to get any wider, so we will need a slow rail connection in the next 30-50 years. The line goes right to the Quay.
— Sean (@sChilibeck) May 28, 2024
One thing about the SkyTrain option here is that you really need to integrate planning with the Hastings Line to get the stations/transfers right https://t.co/vpCy7kHCPt
— ellen teapot 🇨🇦🇺🇸🏳️⚧️ (@asmallteapot) May 28, 2024
Khelsilem, the Chairperson of the Squamish Nation Council, said he would like to see more rapid transit routes explored on the North Shore other than along Main Street, 3rd Street, and Marine Drive, with consideration to potential negative impacts to the First Nation’s large reserves around the northern end of the Ironworkers Memorial Bridge. Squamish Nation, which is building Senakw on its Kitsilano reserve in Vancouver, is currently in the process of drafting master plans for the high-density development potential of its Capilano and Second Narrows reserves.
Equally important, continues Khelsilem, any replacement of the Ironworkers Memorial Bridge would need reserve land. The First Nation supports rapid transit to the North Shore, but emphasizes the need to be part of the consultation process.
Linda Buchanan, the Mayor of the City of North Vancouver and an outspoken supporter of North Shore rapid transit, says the region must focus on the Mayors’ Council’s identified priority of BRT for the route due to its significantly lower cost and ability to achieve it much sooner than later.
“We can’t afford to wait any longer and do nothing while arguably the most complicated transportation project in provincial history is planned by the region and then considered and funded by senior governments,” wrote Buchanan.
More routes on the North Shore other than Main Street-3rd Street-Marine Drive need to be explored, as the impacts of this one proposed alignment have not considered the negative impacts to @SquamishNation communities like Eslha7an.
— Khelsilem (@Khelsilem) May 28, 2024
Other technologies will be studied as part of the TransLink planning process and will include full indigenous participation. The North Shore expects nothing less. While that work moves ahead, TL will extend the R2 to Metrotown ASAP and start building a BRT.
2/3— Mayor Linda Buchanan (@LindaCBuchanan) May 29, 2024
@LindaCBuchanan is totally right. Instead of dreaming about Skytrain we must focus on reality. Skytrain to Shore is $$$ & won’t happen in the next 20 years if at all. UBC is still waiting.
We need better transit now & we need it affordable. BRT is flexible & not disruptive.
— Craig Cameron (@CraigCameronWV) May 29, 2024
There is a 0% chance this happens. The Ironworkers Memorial bridge would need to be replaced, but that isn’t expected until 2050
It’s uneconomical to forward this plan compared to building more skytrain in Vancouver and finishing the outer suburb plans in Coquitlam and Surrey https://t.co/qB2qlz5hMF
— Pebble (@PebbleTonic) May 28, 2024
If the UBC line is going to cost $7 billion, by the time this line gets built it’ll cost $20 billion. Is the North Shore really growing that much to warrant that kind of spending?
— Peter Jensen (@peterbojensen) May 28, 2024
Extend the West Van link to Ambleside and develop this plan on a 25 year basis. It makes a ton of sense and will fully link the region. Add-on an Abbotsford Spur from Langley, extension to Pitt Meadows and Mission, and just build the UBC Extension already.
— Greg (@gdmplanning) May 28, 2024
Should the North Shore rapid transit project use BRT, LRT, or SkyTrain technology? What kind of replacement crossing should be built for the Ironworkers Memorial Bridge? Let us know in the comments below.
- You might also like:
- North Shore-Metrotown SkyTrain would see 120,000 riders daily: study
- TransLink selects three rapid transit routes for planning, including two BRT services
- TransLink's first three Bus Rapid Transit routes could cost over $1 billion
- Opinion: North Shore rapid transit is a must for TransLink, and can't be overlooked
- City of Burnaby wants TransLink's new Bus Rapid Transit route between North Shore and Metrotown prioritized
- Squamish First Nation to develop 350 acres of its lands, including North Shore waterfront reserves
- BC government outlines new SkyTrain to North Shore from Vancouver (MAPS)